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Possible new TCL series for Sunday nights

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Obbzy
dano
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Berlsy
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Wally26
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Possible new TCL series for Sunday nights Empty Possible new TCL series for Sunday nights

Post by Wally26 4/18/2011, 1:41 pm

Due to the success of Touring Car Legends on Sunday nights management has begun discussions on moving the Gallardo's to Tuesday after the current Pooch series so we can still have TCL on Sundays.

Your thoughts would be appreciated Smile

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Post by milo 4/18/2011, 3:14 pm

Yes and Yes. pretty gutted i havnt been able to race the whole TCL's series. started a new job a few weeks back and doing some long hours, eg early starts. So i would love to have another chance to race my lovely Volvo.
cheers.
So to recap, Yes and Yes.

ps, Yes.
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Post by shaynskyline 4/18/2011, 5:26 pm

Glad to see the TCL sundays are gonna stay. Only been able to "compete" in two races, cos, well, i didnt know about it.

So yer, ill be in. Good to look forward to a proper race every sunday.

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Post by racer69 4/18/2011, 7:12 pm

Sounds good to me Smile

Plenty of possibilities with this mod too, i love the Aussie tracks & would drive them in every series lol, but if people want something different the mod allows us for instance to do an ETCC, or BTCC or DTM etc.... An idea for next season could be to use '86 cars too? They are all fairly even.

Another idea, with the Sunday series we seemed to get bigger numbers with the longer single races, perhaps that is an idea for next season too?
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Post by groupcaction 4/18/2011, 7:23 pm

I'd been very keen on another TCL series on a Sunday night... I've had loads of fun in the last few rounds... My suggestion would be to do a WTCC championship, run some tracks from all around the world
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Post by Berlsy 4/18/2011, 7:30 pm

sounds like a top idea to me too, especially now that i have tcl sorted on my computer so i can choose different cars now without getting mismatches.
so thats a yes from me.

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Post by Wally26 4/18/2011, 8:48 pm

groupcaction wrote:I'd been very keen on another TCL series on a Sunday night... I've had loads of fun in the last few rounds... My suggestion would be to do a WTCC championship, run some tracks from all around the world


Just something I have been playing with in my mind to make the series a lot tighter and give some drivers with less experience a real shot....

OK in WTCC cars there is 3 different classes.
We when we have been doing it work out the topxx shootout like as follows.
If we have 1-7 drivers, it's a top 3 shootout.
8-10 drivers, top 6 shootout
11 drivers +, a top ten shootout.

If we work on above stats, maybe we could all start in the middle class.
If we finish in the top xx drivers, we drop a class....
if we finish in the lower xx drivers we raise a class.

for example, in round 1 we had 6 drivers, groupc, milo, racer69, david patterson, myself, shazam
and the finishing order was.
racer69, groupcaction, milo, myself, david and shazam then....
racer69, groupcaction and milo would go to lower class and myself david and shazam would raise to higher class

is it all to complicated you think ?? or do you like the idea
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Post by racer69 4/18/2011, 8:59 pm

Wally26 wrote:
groupcaction wrote:I'd been very keen on another TCL series on a Sunday night... I've had loads of fun in the last few rounds... My suggestion would be to do a WTCC championship, run some tracks from all around the world


Just something I have been playing with in my mind to make the series a lot tighter and give some drivers with less experience a real shot....

OK in WTCC cars there is 3 different classes.
We when we have been doing it work out the topxx shootout like as follows.
If we have 1-7 drivers, it's a top 3 shootout.
8-10 drivers, top 6 shootout
11 drivers +, a top ten shootout.

If we work on above stats, maybe we could all start in the middle class.
If we finish in the top xx drivers, we drop a class....
if we finish in the lower xx drivers we raise a class.

for example, in round 1 we had 6 drivers, groupc, milo, racer69, david patterson, myself, shazam
and the finishing order was.
racer69, groupcaction, milo, myself, david and shazam then....
racer69, groupcaction and milo would go to lower class and myself david and shazam would raise to higher class

is it all to complicated you think ?? or do you like the idea

It is good in theory but i'm not sure it would work in reality.

For instance every track is different, so you might have a round at, say, Monza where the people in the lower cars would not have a hope, or there might be a race at Amaroo where the higher class cars will be at a disadvantage.

Constantly swapping cars i think is abit of a hinderance also, as, personally, i prefer to concentrate on the one car and get it suited to me and my driving over a season.

Also, by making people stick to the one car, the different tracks throughout the season will naturally even things up between the different cars i've found
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Post by Wally26 4/18/2011, 9:47 pm

At the moment, I am thinking the WTCC 1987 cars and I am looking at the possibilty of doing the 1987 wtcc championship which wwill include bathurst and possibly the wellington wip as well.
11 rounds so it will be fairly long series, just tested Jarama, it seems ok.

Probably maybe 2 races per round with tyres/fuel at 2x and have the race lengths long enough for 1 pitstop,
will work on that

W26

ps on hindsight I agree with luke, another reason is for the outsiders that come race wont know those rules so different classes per your previous results idea is out i think
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Post by racer69 4/18/2011, 9:57 pm

Wally26 wrote:Probably maybe 2 races per round with tyres/fuel at 2x and have the race lengths long enough for 1 pitstop,
will work on that

That sounds good, perhaps make it similiar to last series with a couple of longer single race rounds (perhaps double the length with 2 stops) for the 'actual' long races in the 1987 WTCC? All races were 500km except for the Spa 24hrs, Silverstone TT and the Bathurst 1000

The 1987 WTCC Calendar was;

Monza
Jarama
Dijon
Nurburgring
Spa 24hrs (longer single race?)
Brno
Silverstone TT (longer single race?)
Bathurst 1000 (longer single race?)
Calder
Wellington
Mt Fuji

Would we prefer to try and use the time-period tracks (eg Silverstone '87 as opposed current Silverstone).. some tracks like Bathurst, Brno and Dijon are the same now as they were then Smile
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Post by Wally26 4/19/2011, 6:10 am

ok where do i find the nurburg ring(however you spell it)
it probably has some fancy other name and i can't remember what it was


is 11 rounds too much..
as far as I am concerned we are following a real series and 11 is ok in that instance but if you think it's too long let me know..

We will probably do the longer rounds that racer69 has suggested
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Post by dano 4/19/2011, 7:42 am


As much as I like the old nurburgring I think they would have raced on the new/current track wouldn't they?

I did a 45 minute race there in f171s before I joined TTR. My best lap was 7minutes 40 seconds. Awesome track but the outlap sux.

This is an awesome idea for a series. It's got my vote.

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Post by milo 4/19/2011, 10:14 am

What a line up, wow

The 1987 WTCC Calendar was;

Monza http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Monza%201988
Jarama http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Jarama
Dijon http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rfactor-tracks-7/dijon-v2-5-2308/
Nurburgring, rfactor default?
Spa 24hrs (longer single race?) http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Spa%20Francorchamps%201988
Brno http://www.mediafire.com/?b0jjv33rt0jfig8
Silverstone TT (longer single race?) http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Silverstone%201988
Bathurst 1000 (longer single race?) ORSM bathurst
Calder http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Calder%20Park
Wellington, in the making FVR?
Mt Fuji http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RE6JNVI8

and like Dano said, they did use the "short track" Nurburgring.

race info from 1987.

NĂĽrburgring, BRD

Date: 12/7/1987
Track length: 4.542 m
Attendance: unknown
Entries accepted: unknown
Starters: 38
Finishers: 19

Pole position: Niedzwietz/Soper in 1.46,61
Fastest lap: Ludwig in 1.48,59

Distance: 3,5 hours
Average speed: 148,205 kmh
Weather:
Ruleset: Group A
Car info: 1987 Cars

cheers
milo


Last edited by milo on 4/19/2011, 10:05 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : updating track selection)
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Post by Wally26 4/19/2011, 12:07 pm

Formats:

Regular rounds 1x30k race + 1x70k race
cps in longer race
fuelx2
tyresx3

longer races 1x100 k race, pits as required

Must choose a car and stay in it this season, People who choose the sierra are wlcome to use lower horsepower engine if you find yourself by yourself all the time
I am bagging the #43 Marlboro M3

Use the first version displayed by milo for monza
The rest as he diplayed apart from below
Ben has sent me a link to wellington wip but I havent tested as yet
http://www.fileserve.com/file/WESexrQ/Nuerburg_Install.rar
Nurburg ring rfatcor default
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Post by milo 4/19/2011, 2:10 pm

just trying to find a replacement for brno, wellington.

maybe estoril 1988, as used in the ETCC 1988 http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Estoril%201988

or hockeheim used in the ETCC 1986 http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Hockenheim%20GP79
or http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Hockenheim%20GP4

and to throw in a street track maybe Detroit, as raced 1988 F1 season. http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Detroit%201988

i hope im not stepping on any toes, will leave it with Wally for the final championship calender.
will also test the tracks and get back to you Wally.
cheers
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Post by racer69 4/19/2011, 3:55 pm

Brno is on rfactor, i have the track (i think it was a GTR2 conversion from some site, didn't need a CD check though), if not i think milo is on the money with Estoril or Hockeneim, very suitable replacements, even Donnington perhaps too?

I didn't even know anyone was making the old Wellington street race, FANTASTIC cheers , if its not ready i think the Detroit '88 circuit is a great replacement

The 1987 Bathurst 1000 used the Chase, so i think the ORSM 2006 version is most appropriate... though there is something cool about the 'proper' conrod straight.... i'm waiting for someone to do a better version of the pre-87 Bathurst (as opposed to the GPL '67 conversion)


As for the Sierra, if we are only using cars from the 1987 WTCC folder in the mod, then the only Sierra available is the RS Cosworth, which isn't as powerful as the RS500 version seen in other folders (Bathurst 87, 88, 89. ATCC 88 etc etc...), so will be much closer to the pack.


Fuel x2 and tyres x3 is a great idea, as it will allow the smaller cars to play a bigger part in the race as they are easier on the tyres and fuel. If it works right it could mean an extra stop for the bigger cars, which would create very close racing.


Has the makings of an awesome season Smile

Would a suitable starting date be perhaps the 15th of May? The 8th is Mothers Day which would count a fair few out i think that night.

PS... just a pre-season note, i'll miss the races run on the 22nd and 29th of May, as i'll be at Indianapolis, but will be at every other round Smile
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Post by milo 4/19/2011, 10:09 pm

up dated post.
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Post by groupcaction 4/19/2011, 10:12 pm

Really like the sound of this championship... Sounds like everyone has a good chance of settling into a car for the season... will go an load up rFactor just to checkout car selection hahaha Very Happy
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Post by racer69 4/19/2011, 10:58 pm

Wally26 wrote:Regular rounds 1x30k race + 1x70k race

Just regarding the formats, a 30km race for instance around most tracks like Monza or Fuji would be over in ten minutes.... maybe a split of 20mins/40mins for the two races, and one hour for the longer single race rounds?

Unless we are trying to shorten up the nights abit though, in which case the formats posted above is all cool Smile
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Post by Obbzy 4/19/2011, 11:34 pm

A bit confused (nothing unusual there Very Happy )..
Does that mean we can use the 1987 Bathurst cars too, as it was a Round of the WTCC?
I like driving the VK, only reason why I'm asking.

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Post by David Paterson 4/20/2011, 12:39 am

Group A Touring Cars are my all time favourite class, therefore TCL is my favourite mod. 1987 WTCC cars and tracks sounds like a great series, count me in. I've already done the whole championship offline, good fun.

1 hour is a long time to be sitting in a chair staring at a monitor. Maintaining the same focal lenghth for that period is not good for the eyes or the brain.


Last edited by David Paterson on 4/20/2011, 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Remembered something)
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Post by David Paterson 4/20/2011, 12:40 am

Obbzy wrote:A bit confused (nothing unusual there Very Happy )..
Does that mean we can use the 1987 Bathurst cars too, as it was a Round of the WTCC?
I like driving the VK, only reason why I'm asking.


There are a couple of VKs in the 1987 WTCC carset.

Correction. There are a couple of VKs in the 1986 ETCC and a couple of VLs in the 1987 WTCC.


Last edited by David Paterson on 4/20/2011, 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by elgibo 4/20/2011, 4:40 am

Sundays would be fantastic for me Very Happy Due to timezones I'm working when you guys usually race, so a weekend is race is awesome Smile Love that you're possibly including Wellington! I love watching those races on youtube Smile Definitely up for this!
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Post by menthol369 4/20/2011, 7:37 am

I think a better way to keep the series even is if, you enter with a car you stick with that car. then make an even amount of tracks of those cars, eg. for every track that the rs500 dominates at, like bathurst, you need a track like oran park or amaroo so the lower class can succeed.

very keen for this event to keep running!

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Post by Wally26 4/20/2011, 11:40 am

Taking all on board peeps Smile

ok we will stick to WTCC 87

Not sure on replacing brno as yet as 11 rounds is only one week off 3 months(roughly speaking) I think we could do with 10.

I think delaying another week because of mums day is a good idea maybe have another round of Ye Olde V8's
btw the server is up and who would like to take me on at Lakeside in these things Twisted Evil


Hmm on race length... It is Sunday night and the thought was there to shorten the rounds a little, Don't forget our friends in NZ are 2 hours later.
I have tried to make a medium time start being at 9.30pm for nz and 9.30am in uk
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Post by TTR Benny 4/20/2011, 11:55 am

Have put all the tracks in the download section that you guys had listed.

I have also included Wellington 500 in the downloads have never looked at it so one idea what it is like. You may need to register in the FVR forums to download this file not 100%

It is only stage one of the build so could be completely unsuitable
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Post by milo 4/20/2011, 12:22 pm

Wally ive found a brno that works good and its on my list above.
leave it up to you mate, thanks.
milo


Edit; cheers benny
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Post by racer69 4/20/2011, 3:44 pm

Brno is probably the 'blandest' of all the tracks used in the 1987 WTCC so i suppose it wouldn't be missed.... another idea could be a one week mid-season break?

Really keen to try out this Wellington track Smile

Its a shame there is no combined Calder road course/Thunderdome track ever been made like they used in 1987, but the normal Calder will be good for this series though Smile

Obbzy wrote:A bit confused (nothing unusual there Very Happy )..
Does that mean we can use the 1987 Bathurst cars too, as it was a Round of the WTCC?
I like driving the VK, only reason why I'm asking.

Perhaps an idea would be to open the series for cars from the WTCC87, ATCC87 and BTCC87 sets?

That allows the VK's to run (there aren't any in the WTCC87 set), plus some more Rover's to choose from, and there are no RS500s for example in them, only the lower powered RS Cosworths. All the other cars are the same, just more paintjobs to choose from.

The Bathurst87 set includes the RS500s, which i think the plan is to avoid running them in the next series.


Wally26 wrote:Hmm on race length... It is Sunday night and the thought was there to shorten the rounds a little, Don't forget our friends in NZ are 2 hours later.
I have tried to make a medium time start being at 9.30pm for nz and 9.30am in uk

Sounds great Wally, in that case the race lengths you've selected should suit the format perfectly, especially with the increased fuel use and tyre wear.

Really looking forward to this

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Post by TTR Benny 4/20/2011, 4:02 pm

There is one will try find it again have seen pictures it was pretty average could get 5 or 6 cars wide on the main straight
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Post by TTR Benny 4/20/2011, 4:06 pm

here is the pictures I was talking about as well http://www.racedepartment.com/bobs-track-builder-new-tracks/34273-calderpark-thunderdome.html

Track Download http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nm3yjxznzxz found it haven't tried it if someone has time to look would be great
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Post by milo 4/20/2011, 5:43 pm

tryed wellington, the potential is there, but not raceable?(is that a word) yet.
also downloaded calder and couldnt get that to work, just crashed on load up.
for me its quality over anything else in tracks, with those carrera.4 , grandprix classics and virtua_lm tracks i chose for wally to look at are just stunning and a pleasure to drive.
in saying that im hanging out also for webbers picks for the HOF tracks.
see ya
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Post by racer69 4/20/2011, 6:58 pm

Yeah, no banking on that Calder road/Thunderdone circuit either..... i think for this series to regular Calder will work fine.

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Post by Wally26 4/20/2011, 8:59 pm

I am tempted to leave that Brno in the series

However with Wellington... if no-one else minds, I might ask Milo to choose his fave NZ track to include in wellingtons place

Original Calder will do for our series
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Post by David Paterson 4/20/2011, 10:55 pm

There are two Brno race tracks. The street circuit that opened in 1930 at 31lm long and gradually shrank to be 6km long when it closed in 1986 and the puporse built permanent circuit that opened in 1987 at 5km long. Interestingly, the permanent cirrcuit is contained entirely within the original street circut, but uses no part of it.

The d/l we are linking to is the post 1987 layout. It is very typical of a European 1980s GP track. It reminds me very much of Hungaroring, with just a little bit of Spa.
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Post by dano 4/21/2011, 8:02 am

Wally26 wrote:I am tempted to leave that Brno in the series

However with Wellington... if no-one else minds, I might ask Milo to choose his fave NZ track to include in wellingtons place

Original Calder will do for our series

It's a shame about Wellington.

A logical alternative might be Pukekohe as it also held rounds of the nissan mobil 500.
But my preference would actually be hamilton as it's bumpy ass a street circuit like wellington was.

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Post by milo 4/21/2011, 1:45 pm

Danos right, i think we will leap forward in time from 1987 to present day and throw these old timers around the streets of hamilton.
i was gunna try find us a street track from somewhere on the other side of the world but we have a great one on our back doorstep.
cheers milo.

ps thanks Wally.
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Post by racer69 4/21/2011, 4:29 pm

Hamilton is a good idea as a replacement.

Who knows by the time we reach Round 10 the Wellington track may have even been released by then with abit of luck


PS...here is a preview vid of Wellington i found on Youtube;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0czgBsV0mzU
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Post by racer69 4/24/2011, 5:40 pm

Just a thought with the CPS's ;

Will the x2 and x3 fuel and tyres make it a forgone conclusion that cars will have to pit, particularly the big cars?

If so perhaps make the pitstops optional, as the smaller cars are easier on fuel and tyres it will help bring them back into contention when the bigger cars either have to pit more often, or struggle on with stuffed tyres?

Just an idea Smile
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Post by Wally26 4/24/2011, 10:47 pm

on the pitstops, I have been playing around with 3xfuel and tyres

it seems to work pretty good so far and will make it a lot simpler to just say pits as needed instead of trying to police all the stops

To do all of this properly i might need a week or so to to begin...

so if there is not too many objections ..

this week easter, next weekend is labour day in qld, then the week after is mothers day from memory
maybe we should start the weekend after mothers day... your opinions??

in between maybe a few more ye olde V8's ( sorry Richard, the only TC around in those days was "Top Cat")
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Post by racer69 4/24/2011, 11:16 pm

Date for the start sounds great Wally, as do the plans for the weeks in between Smile
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Post by Guest 4/25/2011, 11:12 am

Bugger wally. lol.

I'd get used to the cars if I drove them more often. As it was I'm sure my times last night were alot better than the one I set in the warmup. lol.

As for the TCL series I'd like to participate.

Unfortunately this weekend or next I'm moving so I wont be able to race (sorry guys it is the Sunday I move so computer will not take priority.

The '69 cars were fun (except the spins lol.)

Pitstops I think wally you should make them optional so then everyone has a choice wither or not they take them.

Just my thought on the pitstop thing.

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Post by racer69 4/25/2011, 11:39 am

Richard Coleman wrote:As for the TCL series I'd like to participate.

Unfortunately this weekend or next I'm moving so I wont be able to race (sorry guys it is the Sunday I move so computer will not take priority.

The planned start for TCL is the 15th of May, so hopefully all will be good by then with your moving Smile
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Post by Guest 4/25/2011, 11:54 am

mmmmwahahahaha. 15th of May you say?? I'm getting ancient and can't hear properly. lol.

I'll be sorted by then definitely so I'll be in for the fun. Count on it.

Richard

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Post by racer69 4/30/2011, 5:27 pm

As a rough calendar to work from;

Rd1 - Monza -> 15th May
Rd2 - Jarama -> 22nd May
Rd3 - Dijon -> 29th May
Rd4 - Nurburgring -> 5th June

Given June 12th is the Queens Birthday long weekend, perhaps a mid-season break given its a longish series?

Rd5 - Spa -> 19th June
Rd6 - Brno -> 26th June
Rd7 - Silverstone -> 3rd July
Rd8 - Bathurst -> 10th July
Rd9 - Calder -> 17th July
Rd10 - Wellington -> 24th July
Rd11 - Mt Fuji -> 31st July

What do you think Wally Smile

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Post by David Paterson 4/30/2011, 8:23 pm

Awesome, I'm really looking forward to this.
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Post by racer69 5/2/2011, 9:57 pm

This video here indicates that the Wellington street race will be finished in June 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ELk25G-E_g

With abit of luck we may be able to use it in our series
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Post by Wally26 5/2/2011, 10:50 pm

We will be going on the dates Racer69 mentioned, thanks luke for the help we have been busy Smile
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Post by Obbzy 5/4/2011, 10:55 pm

Obbzy getting some pre-season testing in @ Sandown.
Hammer down, wheels up!
No dramas reported, but some very ordinary front rights discarded in the pits afterwards!!!

Possible new TCL series for Sunday nights Vk_san10 Very Happy
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Post by Webber 5/4/2011, 11:31 pm

Possible new TCL series for Sunday nights Webber10
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